The barista trainer with Italian coffee stalwart Illy has been making annual visits to Malaysia for the past four years. He gives us insights into becoming a barista and tells us why certification is important.

Tell us more about the course you are conducting at the Università del Caffè della Malesia.
This time, it’s a two-day course. We tell the students about the history of the brand, the technical side of things, grinders, espresso rules, cappuccinos, latte art, a virtual tour of the factory in Italy,  showing them different departments so that they can understand the whole production process. This course is designed for coffee lovers, not professional baristas, because the consumers are our final customers, not the outlets. Consumers need to know about espresso, and it is very interesting to see different views from customers about coffees.

Do you think it is important for these students to be certified?
Yes of course! Students change their view about coffee and espresso after the course.  I think it is only right to certify people who are eager to learn because they want to make a difference. And certification gives better quality to the customers as well as baristas.

How do you justify that?
The current course I run here in Malaysia is like a diploma towards becoming a professional barista; this course is the first step for anyone who wants to get into this profession, a good beginning point. It’s capped by a test that is divided into practical and theory sections. A good barista should know the basics of coffee, all about the beans and then lastly the technique, which can only be improved through practice. This course will help the students understand what to expect when choosing this profession, and whether they want to go into it as a profession in the first place. Those who stay on have the passion, and usually make good baristas.

Does a barista being certified automatically ensure their quality and professionalism?
I hope so! We deliver what we can during the course to provide the necessary to be a barista, but we can’t control them when they have left the classroom. We encourage students who have gone out to practise to come back for our other courses, and many of them do come back again. When they do, we suggest what type of course which is suitable for them at that time.   

How do coffee trends differ between Italy and Malaysia?
Malaysians love latte art, but in Italy, we don’t do that. Malaysian baristas, because they like latte art, they came to us for courses and from here, they learned about espresso. So the process works in the reverse in Italy, because there people are only starting to look at latte art now, and the main focus in all cafes has always been on espresso. When you start to learn about the art of coffee, you should start to learn about an individual ingredient and then move on to make something out of it, not the other way round. That’s why I think certification is important for the baristas because that determines that you have learned the important basics.

How are Italian baristas different from Malaysian baristas?
The Italian baristas don’t focus on latte art. There are two ways to serve coffee in Italy: on the counter, or in special preparations like cocktails.

Italy is the only country in the world that serves coffee at the counter. So when you are in a café in Italy, the customer only expects to stay in the coffee shop for two minutes. The barista takes your order and makes your coffee within a minute and you are served immediately. That’s why it is called espresso – prepared in a moment and immediately, you can drink and go. It is only for breakfast that the Italian customer stays longer at a cafe, and even then it’s a maximum of five minutes! That’s why the Italian baristas don’t do latte art – they don’t have the time for it!
The other type of serving, is a special preparation of coffee with some creative mixers. Still, it takes a maximum of two minutes if it is served at the counter.

Why does espresso have to be consumed within two minutes?
Because if you wait for too long, you will lose the aroma. That’s why when an espresso is prepared, the barista grinds the coffee instantly and prepares the coffee within 30 seconds to create the aroma. Leaving it for even two or three minutes, you will lose at least 50% of the aroma. This has nothing to do with the temperature, because the aroma stays within the liquid itself but you can’t smell the aroma as well as when it is fresh, that’s all. This is only a suggested way to drink espresso. It is up to you how you want to drink it, as long as you enjoy it, because drinking coffee is a pleasure.

Does leaving the espresso too long affect the level of caffeine?
Not at all! Not even the quality, just the aroma. Drinking espresso is about the aroma, if you don’t care about the aroma that much, drink it with milk.

Would you say that there are more good baristas in Italy than in Malaysia?
They two different types of markets and ways of serving. Of the coffees prepared in Italy, 80% are black coffees made with espresso machines, and only 20% is milk-based. It is completely the opposite outside of Italy. It is therefore very difficult to compare the practical side of the profession between Italy and Malaysia.  To me, the one thing that is important to every barista is to follow the rules about the transformation of coffee and milk. And if they have the passion, they can be a good barista no matter where they are.

From your experience as a barista trainer, is it easy to spot a person who will be a good barista?
It is hard to determine from just personality. There are a lot of factors to make a good barista. Imagine having to talk to a lot of people while having to make a good cup of coffee, it makes it really hard to be a perfect barista. As a barista, you need to follow the process of making coffee, you need to talk to customers, you need to smile all day… and you know it is not easy to have to smile all day when you work in a café that is very hectic.

What makes a good barista?
You need heart to be a good barista. And that also determines the personality of a coffee shop. Yes, there are the basics of making coffee and how to run a coffee shop but when it comes to building the personality of a coffee shop, it depends on the mentality of the barista who runs the place. And that is the key to creating a good coffee shop; products or machines or anything else are not the priority. That is also what makes the coffee scene interesting. Can you imagine all the coffee shops being the same? How boring is that! I like to visit different coffee shops because they all have different atmospheres. You can have the same blend of beans, same concept, same coffee machines in two different coffee shops, but when you have two baristas running them, you will get different results.

How many years have you been in the coffee industry?
16 years. I started off working for my family’s coffee shop. At that time, it was only a job for me; I was studying IT and didn’t think about becoming a barista. Thanks to my cousin, I learned about coffee and grew my passion since.

Why did you choose to work for illy?
They proposed this very interesting project to me eight years ago. Illy wanted to build Tiestre Universite, and my friends and I were probably the first people in Italy that made latte art. Illy invested a lot of money in creating the university and I remember asking myself, how strange was it to have a school that talks only about coffee! Now we have 23 schools around the world. This was the initial reason for working with Illy, and then I fell in love with the products.

Which part of the process did you start when you were learning to make coffee?
I started straight away with the machine! I made 6kg of coffee every morning for the first five years of my coffee journey, Sunday was my only day off. But at the beginning, I wanted to learn about mixology, not coffee.  My original idea was to open a combination coffee shop and cocktail bar. I had little knowledge about cocktails so I decided to spend two years learning about cocktails in the north of Italy. But now, I don’t own a coffee shop, I make coffee cocktails!

Is that what you do for illy now?
Yes! For the past eight years I have been developing different cocktail recipes using espresso, and now we are reaching about 100 different recipes.

Out of all those recipes, which one is most satisfying to you?
The first one! It was the simplest cocktail but with the best way of preparation. If you want the same depth for espresso after mixing it, it is not easy. It depends on how sweet you want it, or whether you are working on the colour of the presentation. My first recipe was Illy Freddo – a double espresso with 10ml of sugar, and the temperature adjusted a little bit with ice cubes, then the whole thing is shaken.

Can you give me a dessert coffee?
Tiramisu espresso, and we have two versions of that – one with liquor, one without. Just add some ice cream into the espresso, and viola, your tiramisu coffee!

What’s the secret to making a good espresso cocktail?
The first rule about making an espresso cocktail: espresso is always the main ingredient, never let the alcohol overcome the espresso taste. A usual press of espresso is 30ml per shot. If you are putting in any alcohol liquor, measure it at 20ml to 25ml a little bit less than the shot. It is not like making an alcohol-based cocktail, for the amount of alcohol we put in the coffee you will hardly detect it in a cocktail but for coffee, the amount is considered significant.